Steli recently gave an interview at the NYC Enterprise Sales Forum, a community for B2B sales professionals involved in complex sales cycles. Whether you’re doing enterprise sales or not, you'll still get value from listening.
If you’re ready to master the mental game of sales and move deals forward, here's Steli's best advice on the power of following up, creating competition, thinking long-term, and more. Watch the interview now, or read the transcript below.
Interviewer: Is this working? Is this working? Yes? No? Test 1-2-3. Mine working?
Steli Efti: Yes.
Interviewer: All right, good. Thank you. One person. We're probably going to end up having a pretty free-flowing conversation, so Steli and I talked a little bit beforehand. But we're going to focus on a lot of the things that you received from us over the last couple of weeks: hustle, competition, determination, grit—all things near and dear to Steli's heart.
For anybody here who reads any of the stuff he puts out... Steli, I don’t want to get this wrong, so I’m going to read it. Steli is the co-founder and CEO of Close. He’s Silicon Valley’s most prominent sales hustler, a YC alum, advisor to several start-ups and entrepreneurs, and the author of The Ultimate Startup Guide to Outbound Sales. Steli, when you hear "Silicon Valley's Ultimate Sales Hustler," what does that mean?
Steli Efti: It’s an interesting question. I don’t know. This is a quote from something around "what you don’t have in talent, you have to make up in hustle," but I don’t know who said that. Another way of saying "Silicon Valley’s Most Prominent Sales Hustler" is "Silicon Valley’s Least Talented Successful Person." I don’t know, I just make up with effort what I lack in talent.
Interviewer: Awesome. That’s a great way to put it. If anybody Googles you, they’re going to learn two things pretty quickly. One, they’re probably going to learn that you’ve got a penchant for off-color language, and they’re also going to learn that there’s an amazing talk you gave where the team threw a name around and said "Hustle or go home." You interpreted that as "No, it’s go home and hustle." Then you outlined three tenets of what hustle really meant to you. Can you walk us through those?
Steli Efti: Yeah, that was actually a really interesting experience because that conference made me give the first talk and the last one. The challenge was that the first one—the opening keynote—the room was packed. They said, "You’d be the first person ever to get the last session as full as this one. Let’s see if you can do that." That was how that happened.
Just to explain a little bit of context: I feel super weird today. There are multiple things going on. One, if you talk to me and I’m not as mobile as you would think, or if you’re thinking, "Why is he stretching his leg?" there’s no body language power play going on between the two of us. I had ACL surgery recently, so my knee is still kind of a mess. Also, I don’t know what’s going on today—I feel hot, I feel cold, I feel slightly like I’m on drugs, but I haven’t taken anything to my knowledge. I’ve been hanging out with my co-founder, Anthony, over there (the handsome blond fellow). I don’t know if he put something in the coffee we had this morning, but I feel super weird.
If I make no sense today, it has nothing to do with the content. If you see me sweat or chill or something, or I change my colors, it has nothing to do with your question. My body temperature is all over the place. I might just be in pain. Just giving that context, I feel a little funky. But I’m sure this session will have healing powers for me. Having a room full of salespeople—my kind of people—is always good for my body, soul, and spirit.
What was the question again? Oh, hustle. I don’t remember what I was saying a second ago. I do think that sales, although it’s a beautiful and essential thing for us humans, is very simple. I don’t think selling is that complicated, but it is challenging nonetheless. Just because it’s simple doesn’t mean it’s easy.
To me, the formula is very straightforward: you show up, you follow up, and you follow through. If you focus on those three things—showing up doesn’t just have to mean in person; it can be on the phone—you pick up the phone. You show up, you take that first step to create a connection between you and another human being. That’s a crowded space, but still, few people will reach out like that.
But then, the follow-up and follow-through, I find that almost nobody is competing with you there. That’s where I find it’s the easiest to move the needle. Then going for the close is something that's also challenging for people: creating that moment of truth. As I think of it, that moment of beautiful truth—Yes or No. Let’s create a real outcome here versus leaving it in that beautifully comfortable space of "Maybe."
Right? The hopeful land of, "I think they really like this, and they are going to buy, but I don’t know anything else about it. I’ll leave them alone and wait for the money to just come in." Those are the three steps.
Interviewer: I think the one that we'll probably all benefit from diving a little bit into is the second one.
Steli Efti: Follow-up. Yeah, follow-up.
Interviewer: It's the follow-up, and you just started something with the "maybe" thing. You got us going that "maybe" is where start-ups still die. I think that can translate to sales too.
Steli Efti: Yes.
Interviewer: "Maybe" is where sales die. Can you talk to us a little bit about some times where you've really seen the follow-up turn a deal that seemed dead into something real again, and how you found the energy to do that when sometimes you feel like you really don’t want to?
Steli Efti: Yeah, you actually are quoted on one of the follow-up courses that we do, where you told us, "Hey, I followed up using this very specific follow-up structure, and I pulled this XYZ deal." You don’t even remember anymore. But we do. We have your handsome face on some copy of ours.
Listen, the advice I give around follow-up and follow-through is the type of advice I can’t hear myself talk about anymore—I’ve talked about it so much. But it's consistently the highest-value piece of advice that I give, measured by the amount of emails I get on a daily basis. At this point, I get two to three emails a day from people telling me, "I just closed a $300,000 deal by following your follow-up advice," or, "You just hired this person," or "I just published a book on hiring, and how you need to think really long-term."
Another handsome fellow right behind Anthony, Nick Persico—this guy, I was following up on trying to hire him for three years. How long, Nick?
Nick: Three years.
Steli Efti: Every month, all right? I don’t give a shit. Once I know I want to work with you, I think in decades. I have the next 20 to 30 years to make that happen. It doesn’t really matter to me if it happens this year or next year. That’s the time horizon that I try to apply.
People hire amazing people, press investment, and create hundreds of millions of dollars of value. A lot of that has been created by me screaming at people that they need to follow up more. I keep doing it out of a sense of duty because I know that this is really valuable, even though I’ve said it a million times already.
I think that’s just sales applied to everything. If you're in sales, your number one job is to create outcomes. Yes is great, obviously. Yes is the preferred outcome, but No is equally good. If you get a hundred No’s, you're not going to ignore that. Clearly, something is wrong here, right? Either we're trying to sell to the wrong person, the wrong thing, or I’m the wrong type of salesperson. But something is clearly going wrong. If you get a lot of Yes’s, awesome, right? You’re on the right track.
It’s that Maybe zone where you don’t know what the heck is going on, and there’s no clarity about what to do. Usually, in that bubble of Maybe, people just make up a story they want to make up. Most salespeople and entrepreneurs, we have a big flaw—we’re such positive thinkers. We're hopeful. We think the world is going to be a better place. When you have a lot of things in the Maybe stage, you're probably fooling yourself that too many of these will turn into a Yes. Most of the time, if something is stuck in the Maybe ditch too long, it will stay there forever.
Interviewer: I think there are two really important things. Let’s go back to the first one first and put Nick on the spot a little bit. Nick, what did Steli say two and a half years in that finally got to you?
Nick: Three years.
Steli Efti: Well, Nick worked for us.
Interviewer: Let’s go back a little bit.
Steli Efti: Nick was one of the ... We were running sales teams on demand for startups in Silicon Valley. We did that for 200 venture-backed startups. During that time, we built an inside sales CRM called Close, first just for our own needs. Eventually, we released it, and that product became a bigger business than the original one, so we just fully focused on that.
Nick was one of the first salespeople we were renting out to startups. Then he was the first person doing sales and marketing for Close. We knew he was amazing, and then he broke our heart and left because one of our customers offered him an amazing opportunity. He was like, "Let me do that. Let me move up in my career."
Right after that, he started his own company, so he became a founder. We had to go through all kinds of life stages on this journey with him and be very patient. We helped a lot. It was kind of a dual thing of helping him wherever we could and telling him, "If what you’re doing isn’t working out, we’re going to be the next stage of your life again." But what convinced you ultimately?
Nick: Well, I think what ultimately happened was I came to you guys because my company was failing and we were about to shut down. It was just this knowledge that you were always going to be there for me. The first thing that I talked about was, "Hey, this thing is happening." You gave me advice first, and then you were like, "By the way..." Since you were always keeping in touch at all times, more or less, for every month for three years, you were the first folks I talked to, to tell you what’s going on in my journey, and it worked out that way. You were just there and continued to follow up.
Steli Efti: That’s very flattering—your version of the story—but that’s exactly what you want to be. You want to be the first person they think of. I don’t give a damn if they don’t say, "Well, I never loved a company more than Close, and I knew there would be only one option." I don’t need to hear that. It doesn’t have to be romantic. He needs to be happy in what he does today. He needs to be fulfilled, challenged, and excited. He needs to want to stick around.
But I’m okay saying, I would bet a lot of money that at any point in those three years if somebody woke you up at 3:00 am and asked, "What’s the company on this planet that wants to work with you the most and wants you the most urgently?" You would have just said Close.io, right? He knew. There was no doubt that we wanted to work with him because we never left any doubt about that. When the time was right, he didn’t even have to think, "I wonder who I could work for, what other company would be a good fit?" He just went straight back into our arms.
Nick: But it sounds like it's not just that you were following up, because you said you were there to help as well. You were there to advise, answer questions, and you were delivering value. That’s an important part of that.
Steli Efti: Sure. If it wasn’t a fit, like all jokes aside, if Nick had left Close and thought, "These people are horrible, I hated every minute of working there," and then he worked for another company, or his own company, and thought, "My God, now finally I’m working with really talented, awesome people," he wouldn’t have just said, "Well, they talked to me on the phone. I hate them, but I guess I have to work for them because they've been following up." He wouldn’t have said yes.
Nick: Yes.
Steli Efti: See how that works? It needs to be a fit. Just because I follow up with you forever when I’m trying to sell you something that has zero value in your life, I don’t think that’s going to work out or that it’s a worthwhile endeavor. But when there is a fit, if I know I can create value, and we’re a good fit, I’ll never let go.
Interviewer: We’re in one of those times of the year right now where it’s really easy to stop following up because we’re all focused on closing deals at the end of the month, at the end of the quarter. I think probably one of the places where we could use more follow-up is where, as much as you talk about it, there are still plenty of people who probably aren’t doing it or don’t really understand how valuable it can be. What should everybody take away tonight about follow-up? What should they do tomorrow on deals that aren’t going to close this quarter?
Steli Efti: My advice on that is very simple. Take the amount of follow-up you do today, double it. If just 10% of this room does that, we’d make the world a better place. I guarantee you, we’d really make the world a better place that way.
My follow-up philosophy is very simple. There are a lot of nuances, right? It’s different when it’s cold versus when it’s warm. If I had a conversation and I’m convinced there’s a fit, there’s a different path I’ll go down compared to when I’ve never talked to you and I’m reaching out to make that first connection. But when I reach out to make that first connection, if there is a fit, I will follow up with you forever—indefinitely. This means forever and ever. I will never stop following up until I get a result. I don’t care.
Yes? I’ll leave you alone. I’m not even one of these people who says, "Yes, no is the first step to yes." That’s true in some cases, but I don’t even have time for that. I don’t optimize for turning "No"s into "Yes"es unless it’s really important to me. Mostly, it’s not. But if I don’t get a response from you, most people assume it’s a rejection. I don’t. I assume you’re busy, you have a life, there’s something else going on, and responding to me is not on top of your mind. I’m just going to follow up and champion that relationship until it’s the right time for you to tell me "Yes," or to tell me to get lost.
I’m not going to leave it at that—after a great free call or a great demo—and then just let it fall into the depths of the earth, not knowing what’s going on with them. You’ll never get that from me.
Interviewer: I’m going to give you a story from earlier today. I was talking to a friend of mine who is working a deal with this large coffee company that we all know. She said, "I followed up, but it’s a cell phone, and I’m calling him in the morning. He’s on his way to drop off his kids, and I don’t want to bother him." What would you say to that?
Steli Efti: Okay, so you have the cell phone of the person. Who gave that to you?
Interviewer: He did.
Steli Efti: He did? That’s awesome. All right, you can stalk him for the cell phone. Okay. In the morning, he brings his children to school. Can you call at a different time?
Interviewer: Yeah.
Steli Efti: Have you done that?
Interviewer: Well, he’s been specific about telling her to call in the mornings.
Steli Efti: Oh, so he told you he wants to talk to you while he’s bringing his children to school? Have you done that?
Interviewer: How far does "forever" go in this situation?
Steli Efti: Well, most of the time when I go through these therapy sessions, I realize the problem is not the prospect—it’s us. It’s the story we tell ourselves about this. Because the same thing—my basic advice for sales is the equivalent of "Eat broccoli and work out" when it comes to health and fitness. People ask, "What do I need to do to lose weight?" Eat healthy and work out. The problem is, I don’t want to eat broccoli, and I don’t want to work out. One doesn’t taste good, and the other thing takes effort. So, can you give me another version of this?
That’s why there’s an industry, and every year there are 10 million books coming out on new diets and workouts. Why? Because people don’t want to do what it takes to get what they want. They are looking for an answer they want to do.
It’s similar with most salespeople. They come to me with their problems, and it’s their problem more than the prospect’s problem. In this case, let’s give her the benefit of the doubt and say he told her to call in the morning. He said to call while he’s bringing his children to school, but every time she calls, there’s the sound of children screaming in the background, and he’s like, "Maybe this isn’t a good time, can you call me tomorrow?"
If she’s done that 10 times already, this is unheard of. This type of problem typically doesn’t go with a reasonable challenge. It goes with, "I think this isn’t good," or "I’m overthinking this." If even that were to happen, I would challenge her to challenge him if there’s another way.
The 10th time, I would tell the person, "Listen, I love you and I love your kids, but let’s power through this together. I don’t care if your children are crying in the background. We’ll get through this. If that’s not an option, give me another time. I don’t want to be calling you every day. I’m wasting your time, my time, and your children are probably wondering, ‘Who’s that crazy person calling all the time?’ Let’s get this done. Let’s both move on with our lives."
You need to push back and tell the person, "This isn’t working out. We need to figure it out right now."
Interviewer: I want to tie that back to something you said a few minutes ago, about the "maybe."
Steli Efti: Yes.
Interviewer: Let’s start with the premise that the fear of picking up the phone and calling while this guy is dropping his kids off is: "I’m going to get a maybe if he picks up." What can we do to prevent that?
Steli Efti: I think people are more afraid of the "No" than the "Maybe." Most people optimize their pitch to get the "Maybe," right? They set it up in a way that’s like, "Could this be interesting for you?" And people say, "Well, maybe." Then they say, "Awesome. Let me send you some more information. You do whatever you need to, discuss it internally, and I’ll wait to hear from you. I have all the patience in the world, and whenever you’re ready to buy, you know my contact information."
That’s what I find in an exaggerated version of it. I don’t think people are afraid of the "Maybe." They’re optimizing for not getting the "No." They’re afraid of real rejection, so they’re okay with the "Maybe." "Maybe" could turn into a "Yes," while "No" seems kind of final. But I believe that’s also BS. I don’t think "No" is final.
People don’t want to get to a clear outcome because they’re afraid that if they push really aggressively today to get a "Yes" or "No," many people might say "No." Then, what do you do?
Steli Efti: It’s the same thing. I’ll give you a little YC (Y Combinator) story. When we went through YC, this was 2011. I was one of the raw, cocky, arrogant, asshole versions of founders back then, and I had gone through fundraising before, very unsuccessfully, where I raised nothing in three years. I was like, "F fundraising! I’m not going to go through hell again."
We had 50 or 60 investors interested in our deal, and we dropped out of YC. I had this email set up, and it basically said, "Hey! So excited and honored by your interest. Here’s the deal: we’re closing the round in two weeks. These are our terms." And the terms were like the most ridiculous terms ever. "If the timeline and terms make sense to you, let’s jump on a call. If not, let’s stay friends. Who knows, down the line, there might be a chance for us to work together."
I wanted to force a clear "Yes" or "No." I didn’t want to mess around with 60 people, having coffee meetings because, while I sit there having coffee, you as an investor are making money. That’s your job. But I’m losing money sitting there for an hour. I’m not making any progress in my business, I’m losing money. I wanted to make sure I didn’t waste my time with wannabes, but just talked with the people who were ready to do this.
So, I sent out this email in a hotel room at night, feeling like a big bad-ass. I was like, "F these investors" (in a really nice, loving way), thinking, "They don’t have control over me." I felt pretty good about myself.
Then, the first response comes back: "No thanks." I can deal with that. The second response comes: "No thanks." Okay, two… that’s fine. By the fifth "No," I started to panic internally. I thought, "I just messed up our company. I just blew it. We’re not going to raise money because I thought I was going to be this bad-ass."
"Oh my god!" I started panicking, pacing up and down the room, thinking, "How do I save this? What do I do?" Thankfully, I knew that I was in an emotional state. So, I thought, "You know what? I can’t do anything right now. It’s too late, I already sent these emails. Go to sleep, and tomorrow morning, we’ll see how many more rejections we get, and we’ll come up with a game plan."
The next morning, I had a few more rejections, but then a few people said, "Yeah, that sounds cool. Let’s talk." Then, I was a genius again! I was like, "Oh great, obviously it worked exactly as I planned."
Here’s the thing: nobody’s above liking rejection. I don’t know anyone who loves rejection. There are people who have gotten desensitized to it, people who have learned that it’s part of the deal, but I don’t know anyone who’s like, "Yeah! I want people to tell me what I do is bad!" Maybe there are people who get some pleasure through that pain, but I don’t know any personally.
People think I’m that way, but I really am not. It doesn’t feel good, but you need to learn to deal with it and move forward.
Interviewer: I think you answered it. That’s all I need to know.
Steli Efti: That’s all you need to know.
Interviewer: I want to shift gears a little bit. You wrote an article recently that, when I was sitting around with a bunch of friends, they all loved. The title was something to the effect of "The Startup Culture is Killing Sales Culture." What’s happening? How is startup culture killing sales culture?
Steli Efti: Well, first, who here... this is too late—usually, I would ask this very early in the process, but whatever, I just thought of it. Do me a quick favor. Raise your hand if you’ve never heard of me before this very moment. You just came to the meet-up, and you have no idea who I am. Be really proud of that!
You know, that’s very good for my ego. Truly, there’s still a lot of work to do, but that’s okay. I just want to get a sense of how many people know my content versus those who are just here for the meet-up.
The article was part of a larger theme I talk about a lot, which is that I think the ideal salesperson—this applies to teams as well—has changed over time. Back in the day, the model of a highly successful salesperson was kind of the "Wolf of Wall Street" type person. If you want to psychoanalyze that personality type, you’d call them "unfriendly and strong."
An unfriendly and strong personality type is someone who thinks the world is a zero-sum game. They’re out to crush the competition, take money from the customer, and just bulldoze everyone. They’re not very friendly in how they think, but because they’re strong, they bully people into submission. They get what they want because they push and pressure people. These people succeed in life, often unfortunately, but they do. However, they don’t create a lot of value along the way.
There’s also a challenge with longevity. The customers they bully into submission don’t come back in 10 or 20 years to keep buying from them. These people thrived in industries and at a time when you could just burn through customers indefinitely. You just didn’t care. You got as much money from one customer, then moved to the next. There was a big enough pool of customers to keep doing that.
In today’s world, where reputation is much more visible and sticks around forever, and where it’s harder to do that, it’s a more challenging game to play. But there’s still room for that in the world.
The exact opposite personality type in that psycho-quadrant is someone who’s friendly and weak. Think of your favorite aunt or art teacher—someone who’s apologetic, always saying, "I’m so sorry to bother you," and acting super nice. These are the nicest people on earth, but a funny thing happens: when someone is weak in the way they interact socially, they turn other people into jerks. They make people take advantage of them. It’s just the social dynamic. Unfortunately, these people don’t end up as the most successful, even though they should be.
I believe the perfect salesperson of the future is someone who’s friendly and strong. One model of that is a good parent. A good parent loves their children but has authority over them. You can’t be their equal—you need to be their boss. When your children are hungry and tired and turn into maniacs, running around screaming and throwing things, telling you they hate you, you can’t start screaming back at them.
You realize, "This is a child, I’m the parent." You say, "All right, little buddy, I get that you’re tired and hungry, but here’s how it’s going to go down: you’re going to put on your pajamas, we’re going to read a story, and then you’re going to sleep." Even if the child keeps screaming, you stay assertive and clear. Eventually, the kid will give in and say, "All right, it seems like they know what they’re doing."
Similarly, with prospects and customers, a good salesperson is like a good parent or a good doctor. When you come to a doctor, you want them to care, ask good questions, and really figure out what’s going on. But when it comes time to make a decision, you want them to have authority and say, "I’m the expert, and this is what we’re going to do."
If you push back and say, "Well, I don’t want to do surgery," a good doctor will say, "No, we’re doing the surgery. It’s happening, and we’re scheduling it right now." You need that level of authority because they are the expert.
That’s what I believe a great salesperson should be. Someone who wants to create value and only sells to people who should buy, where buying means they’ll get more value from the exchange than what you charge them. You do this from a position of strength. Once I know someone needs my product, I’m not asking, I’m telling. It’s not an option—we’re not equals figuring out what to do. I know what we need to do, and I’m going to guide them.
The same applies to teams. You want sales teams that are both friendly and strong. Internally, the old-school sales teams were hyper-competitive and unfriendly to each other. It was a dog-eat-dog world. You needed everyone else to fail so you could succeed. That’s toxic.
In startups today, there’s a new trend. They want no commissions, no one knowing who the top salesperson is. It’s all about "We are one team." They report the entire team’s numbers and expect everyone to work together to close deals as a committee.
I get the appeal of that idea, but it creates issues. It creates sales teams that don’t know how to sell. They aren’t competitive, and they don’t develop the strength and certainty you need in sales. What ends up happening is your top performers get frustrated and either leave or disengage.
Interviewer: What’s the balance? You said it exists in startup culture, but it’s also starting to exist in broader business culture. How do we balance being friendly while still fostering a competitive spirit?
Steli Efti: Friendly, yes. Not weak. If you look at top-performing sports teams—take a basketball team that’s at the top of their game—those people are insanely competitive. They want to be the best in the world, and they compete fiercely, even within their own team. But they’re not competing to the point where they want everyone else to fail.
In sales teams, though, if it’s a hostile environment, you can make tons of money, and it doesn’t matter if your colleagues fail. It doesn’t matter if the other salesperson is miserable—everyone’s pockets are disconnected from each other.
If you think of sales culture like a championship-winning sports team, you realize we need to push each other to be our best, but in a friendly, constructive way. I don’t want you to fail—I want you to be great, and I want to be better. That’s the kind of culture that we need.
Steli Efti: That’s the kind of culture we need to create if we want to attract and retain the best talent. A lot of companies in the future, especially startups, are attractive because it’s cool to work for a startup, it’s cool to work in a tech business, it’s cool to have the fantasy of hockey-stick growth and IPOs, and all that cool stuff. So a lot of salespeople will come because of that. But I think, if you work on a team where many people underperform, that’s going to mess with you mentally and emotionally. It’s going to make you weaker. It’s going to slow down your growth because you’re not surrounded by excellence on your team.
Ultimately, that can’t be a good thing.
Interviewer: When you say that sales model doesn’t work, what’s your advice for people walking back into those offices tomorrow? The onus will be on them to reignite this sales culture that you’re talking about—the strong, framing sales culture.
Steli Efti: First of all, raise your hands—who thinks that this is an issue in their company or team right now? (People raise hands) There you go. Now, multiply that number, because I know people are reluctant to raise their hands and admit this. But thanks to those who did.
If you’re one of those anonymous people, shoot me an email and we can talk about it—steli@close.io. But here’s the thing, I don’t think it’s that complicated. You need to perform and get that framework for yourself first. Show up, push everyone in your team to be the best version of themselves, and do that from a friendly place. Not just a supportive place—if someone is messing up, tell them, "I think you can do better, and I want to help you, but you need to step up your game."
Instead of saying, "Everybody has a bad month or year, you’re doing okay," give honest feedback. Be real from a friendly place. Do that for yourself first without having a meeting or talking to the CEO. Don’t say, "Let’s have a team meeting, and I’ll tell them some guy from a meet-up said we need to be friendly and strong, and our whole structure needs to change." Then people will start asking questions, and you’ll think, "Oh no, why did I bring this up?"
Start small. Pick one person on your sales team and say, "The two of us will be version one of this." Push each other for more excellence, and if that works, expand. If not, and the company just doesn’t want to do it, find a better team where you can grow.
Interviewer: I think what you’re talking about are fundamentals—how do you get the energy to actually apply the tactics? Now, let’s zoom forward a little. A sales conversation in 2017 is remiss without talking about tools, tactics, and technology—AI, for instance. People say AI will either completely fall apart or replace salespeople. What’s your take on that?
Steli Efti: I don’t care about the newest tools or trends. I’m not interested in the latest fad. Like I said before, with the health analogy, I don’t care about the latest workout craze. I don’t need some fancy new technique to be better at sales. I focus on fundamentals.
Jeff Bezos is a great example of this mindset. When Amazon started, instead of focusing on what was going to change, he asked, "What will never change?" He realized customers will never say, "I want to pay more for a product," or "I want to wait longer to get it." That’s always going to be true. So, they optimized everything around that.
The same philosophy applies to sales. People will always need someone to help them make important decisions. The more complicated the decision, the more they’ll need someone who brings confidence and strength. That’s never going to change. I think if you focus on the fundamentals and are better at that than anyone else, the tools are secondary.
Yes, you can use tools to make your job easier. Use technology to handle manual tasks and improve productivity, but the real differentiator is in how well you deliver value to your customers.
Most people come to me pitching their "AI-powered" sales tools. When I ask them to explain the AI aspect, it’s clear it’s all A and no I. It’s just basic automation at best. But AI sounds cooler, right?
If I were in sales today, I would focus on using common-sense tools and not worry about what’s coming next. The fundamentals of selling haven’t changed, and I don’t think they’re going to.
Interviewer: Awesome. One more fundamental question, then we’ll open it up for the audience. It’s the last eight days of the quarter, and people are stressed about hitting their numbers. What are you telling your team to do during this time?
Steli Efti: Well, our company is unique. We don’t have quarterly pressures. We’re profitable, we’re a small team that does big business, so we don’t chase month-to-month or quarter-to-quarter results.
But I truly believe most salespeople aren’t thinking long-term enough. Most people overestimate what they can do in a month and underestimate what they can do in a year or decade. You think in months, but you need to think in years.
Here’s my advice: if you're in a bad place this quarter, own it. It’s going to be a bad quarter. Don’t take shortcuts or try to pull a rabbit out of a hat in the last two weeks. You’ll mess up the next three quarters by doing that. You’ll take bad deals, push people to sign before they’re ready, and all these decisions will hurt you later.
Long-term thinking is what will serve you. What did you do 12 months ago that led to a bad quarter today? The results you're seeing today are the results of your past actions. If you didn’t hustle last quarter, it’s showing up now. But if you’re hustling today, you won’t see the results immediately. It will take a quarter or two to pay off.
Nobody likes to hear that. We all want instant gratification. But I don’t have an answer that includes an easy fix because the right answer requires hard work and time.
Interviewer: I think that’s right—the answer isn’t easy. Over the last 45 minutes, I heard three key things. First, show up, follow up, close the deal. Second, find someone to compete with—push each other. And third, think long-term about yourself, your customers, and your actions. Those are three great takeaways.
Let’s open it up to questions from the audience.
Audience Member: Great talk, by the way, so thanks for that. You’ve got a lot of energy—higher energy than most people. How do you maintain that? Is it just who you are, or do you have rituals?
Steli Efti: Part of it is personality. I can be very passionate, but I’m not always like this. When people see me on a big stage, they think I’m always running around kicking in doors and screaming at people, but that’s not me all the time.
I’m either full-on, or I don’t want to deal with anyone. I’m either in front of a thousand people, or I want to be left alone. I hate networking events—talking to 100 people just to find one interesting person. That feels inefficient to me.
For me, energy comes from asking yourself what gives you energy and what takes it away. It’s not just about managing time—it’s about managing energy.
There’s a physical component (what you eat, working out), a mental component (your attitude), and a spiritual component. When I talk about things I care about, I naturally get louder and more passionate, whether it’s in a coffee shop or on a stage.
I’ve designed my life so more and more of my time is dedicated to the things that give me energy. But it’s not constant—it’s about adjusting. Some days, you have more energy. Some days, you’re struggling. When things feel hard, that’s usually a sign you’re doing something wrong.
Audience Member: You talked a lot about competition, but how do you foster competition in a small startup where you only have one or two salespeople?
Steli Efti: There are two things. First, challenge each other and create a culture where people push each other to be their best. You want people who not only believe in you but who push you to live up to your potential.
Second, find outside competition. Who else do you know that’s doing sales at a startup? Reach out to people, find someone who’s ahead of you, and ask them to challenge you. Turn that person into your competition. If you dread sending them your results because they’re crushing you, good—that’s what you want.
Audience Member: How do you handle it when someone says "No" but you know they’d be a great fit? How do you follow up with them without being pushy?
Steli Efti: You have to find the balance between taking that "No" seriously but not too seriously. If you don’t take it seriously at all, you’ll come off as pushy and disrespectful.
But at the same time, you don’t give up right away. If someone says, "This isn’t a good fit for me," I’ll respond with, "That’s great—most of my best customers said the same thing at this stage. Let me explain why."
You need to communicate that you expected the "No" and are comfortable with it, but you’re also confident that the conversation isn’t over. Then, you need to provide real value—tell them something they didn’t know. That’s the key.
Audience Member: You seem very knowledgeable about a lot of different topics. How do you educate yourself?
Steli Efti: I’ve done a lot of things in my life, and most of them didn’t work out the way I wanted them to. But I kept going. Most people slow down when things don’t work out. If you can maintain your speed even when things go wrong, you’ll learn a lot.
I’ve been an entrepreneur since I was 17. I dropped out of high school, started my first business, sold everything, and bought a one-way ticket to Silicon Valley. I knew nothing about software or tech. I arrived at SFO and asked someone how to get to Silicon Valley.
Life experience is the best teacher. There’s no shortcut. If you keep going and pushing yourself into things you’re not ready for, you’ll learn.
Audience Member: As a leader, how do you help your team think long-term when they’re used to working month-to-month?
Steli Efti: Start with baby steps. Don’t try to make a huge change overnight. Start by focusing on one customer relationship you want to build for the next decade. Challenge yourself to find one customer a month that you can invest in for the long term.
Once you start shifting your mindset in small steps, you’ll build momentum. You’ll naturally start thinking long-term in other areas of your business.
Audience Member: What do you care about the most?
Steli Efti: My two sons. But before I had kids, I cared about creating a lot of value and pushing myself to grow. I get depressed if I look back at myself a year ago and don’t think, "Wow, I was an idiot back then." If I’m not constantly growing and learning, I feel like I’ve wasted time.
Audience Member: How would you recommend getting that first leadership role in sales if you’ve never done it before?
Steli Efti: I’ve only hired sales leaders who’ve never been sales leaders before. I’ve only hired salespeople who’ve never had a sales commission before. I know how to teach people to sell, but I can’t un-teach the bad habits they’ve picked up elsewhere.
If someone is truly exceptional, they should be almost unhireable. When I recruit, I don’t ask for people who are looking for a job. I ask, "Who’s the most talented person you know who would never consider working here?" Then I go after those people.
Interviewer: One more question from the audience.
Audience Member: I’m a recruiter, and I’ve noticed that sales leadership roles often require someone who’s already been a sales leader. How do you break into that without prior experience?
Steli Efti: I think it’s all about showing potential. A great salesperson who shows they can lead by example can become a great sales leader, even if they haven’t held that title before. As a recruiter, find those people—people who might not have formal leadership experience but demonstrate leadership qualities in everything they do.
Steli Efti: If anyone had a question that didn’t get covered, or even if you have a follow-up, shoot me an email—steli@close.io. I’m always happy to help salespeople, always happy to help people who want to make things happen.
We also just released a bundle with several of my books on sales—The Sales Hiring Playbook, How to Outbound Sales as a Startup, templates, resources, cold email examples, etc. If you want that, just send me an email with the subject "Bundle, motherf*cker," and I’ll send it to you.
Thanks for listening, and thanks for asking great questions!
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